Some of you think she's dead, and/or that Papa Shepphard may be alive still.... All I know is it's weird she would abandon Aaron, and it's weird she would be hanging out in a creepy-ass dirty cabin with Papa in the pitch dark.. wearing a strange, smug Mona Lisa smile.
I think the Psychic was right: Aaron is special and he should be raised by Mom or else Aaron risks becoming evil like Damian in The Omen. The Psychic never had a couple lined up in Los Angeles to adopt Aaron, that was a ruse to get Claire on flight 815. which he hoped would end in her raising Aaron on the Island.
Papa Shepphard doesn't want Claire to raise her baby. Since Papa is is hanging out in Jacob's cabin he probably represents Jacob's desires as well... Then there is another camp (The Psychic, Charlie~Hurley) who have expressed grave fear of other people raising Aaron ..... So far nobody has commented Kate's ability to raise Aaron, but both the Psychic and a prophetic "Asylum Hurley" have served as pretty sobering Voices From The Beyond in their pleas to get Aaron specific parenting.... (In the last episode Jack was told by Hurley who had been told by Charlie that he should not be raising Aaron for instance)
I think the Psychic was right: Aaron is special and he should be raised by Mom or else Aaron risks becoming evil like Damian in The Omen. The Psychic never had a couple lined up in Los Angeles to adopt Aaron, that was a ruse to get Claire on flight 815. which he hoped would end in her raising Aaron on the Island.
Papa Shepphard doesn't want Claire to raise her baby. Since Papa is is hanging out in Jacob's cabin he probably represents Jacob's desires as well... Then there is another camp (The Psychic, Charlie~Hurley) who have expressed grave fear of other people raising Aaron ..... So far nobody has commented Kate's ability to raise Aaron, but both the Psychic and a prophetic "Asylum Hurley" have served as pretty sobering Voices From The Beyond in their pleas to get Aaron specific parenting.... (In the last episode Jack was told by Hurley who had been told by Charlie that he should not be raising Aaron for instance)
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 10:16 AMhere's an interesting thought related to this...do we know if the "dead people" all have the same loyalties?
various dead people have shown up as manifestations of the island, speaking what it wants. those people obviously aren't required to have the same loyalties as they did when they were alive. if jacob is a manifestation of the island, then christian is too, as he is in jacob's cabin speaking to locke on jacob's behalf. horace's provenance we don't really know yet - maybe the island, maybe speaking for a different "side?" and charlie appearing to hurley...who knows whether it's actually charlie or just another manifestation? can we trust the dead people at all? and since we don't know how many "sides" are in play...the island, the Others, the dharma initiative, the losties split into two camps, widmore's people, etc...it's hard to tell who's speaking for whose interests.
re: claire, my personal thought is that it wasn't actually claire in that cabin. it was another manifestation. whether claire is dead or lost somewhere or what, i don't think anything she says is "claire's" but belongs to one of the sides in play.
the psychic...who knows whose he was? do we even know who wanted claire to raise aaron? why did the psychic suddenly change? if the motive for having claire adopt aaron out was to get her on O815, then does the island NOT want claire to raise aaron, and if not, then what is aaron's place, really?
my brain hurts. :-) -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 10:38 AMThe island is a giant Dementor and it survives by sucking the souls out of people. What they do in its tummy is up to them. They are trapped but have free will.
Aaron will more than likely become an emo. His soul already having been taken by the island when he leaves, he will in fact become the True Emo. The One if you will. All others are posers with their bad poetry and black garb. He is truely The Lost. The Sad. The Dreary. Unto these names no more shall be given save unto him. Aaron as the True Emo, having lots of money and a ticket to go any where, will embrace the emptiness within more so than any emo before him. His bad poetry - oh! and it will be bad...all about islands that once were but alas now have no where - will bring about the collapse of civilization. the coffee houses will be choked with his followers. Goth clubs will spring up as never before. People will lie in their own self pity never going to work, forgetting to eat. All will perish unless Aaron is returned to the containment of the island. Clair wants the Emo Armgeddon. This is why she left him in the woods as baby Moses was left in the reeds. Remember she, too, was once an emo....and now unto her The True Emo has been born. And she is blessed amoung women. -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 11:52 AM
@ Supreme Mugwump- your theory-ette of Aaron as the Emo AntiChrist of Dismal Doom (with Claire as the Anti-Virgin Mary) is hysterically funny.
Since it seems the manifestations of dead (or at least, missing -as with Walt) people are sometimes Smokey in mufti --and not the usual Anti-Casper form we know and love as it roars about ripping up trees, hooting in A-sharp, and mangling pilots-- I have a hard time sorting out which of the dead speaking even really are dead speaking versus Smoky playing at being a dead cryptic gesturer or speaker (or snorter, in the case of the black horse). -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 1:03 PM*snort*
*snarfle*
and here i was trying to be all serious and crap. jeez. ;-) -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 1:53 PM*snicker*
And Jack will be his oldest follower.
Cry, Jack, CRYYY!!! *MUaaaahAHAHAHAHAHahahaaaa*
(Er, 'scuse me...)
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 7:28 PMWell, I love Supreme, but i also dig your serious talk, Free!
This:
"who knows whether it's actually charlie or just another manifestation? can we trust the dead people at all?"
is a good question... Here's what I think about what we have seen:
• Charlie appearing to Hurley: I think he is supposed to be really Charlie speaking from the beyond somehow...
• Eko's brother seemed like a manifestation because of the smoke and his extreme bitchyness.
• Christian Shepphard's appearances seem like an island manifestation because Jack chased him that one time and he disappeared...
• Hurley's asylum pal seemed like a manifestation from his own head..
• Walt appearing to Shannon and acting weird seemed like a projection of his image from some remote viewing/sending station.
• Claire in the cabin - Can't decide.
• Anthony Cooper's appearance was convincing because we have confirmation he had mass and breathed and bled like a real person.. but I bet the island can make a clone if it wants to, so I am undecided on him, too.
• Dementors - totally legit. ;)
What do you people think? -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 12:01 PM@joanna
<<Charlie appearing to Hurley: I think he is supposed to be really Charlie speaking from the beyond somehow... >>
I disagree with this...Charlie is an Island manifestation just like Christian in that the both of them are both doing the Island's bidding. The Island also had both Charlie's and Christian's (and Yemi's!) dead brains to analyze for their contents, to say nothing of the minds of the other Island dwellers who knew them, a la "Solaris". Also, how else would Charlie know about Christian going to viist Jack if he weren't a fellow Island manifestation?
<<Eko's brother seemed like a manifestation because of the smoke and his extreme bitchyness.>>
Agreed. He was there to stand in judgment of Eko, and Yemi would be the one person from Eko's past from whom he might have accepted that judgment.
<<Hurley's asylum pal seemed like a manifestation from his own head..>
Also agreed...just perhaps amplified or solidified somewhat by the unique properties of the Island.
<<Walt appearing to Shannon and acting weird seemed like a projection of his image from some remote viewing/sending station>>
Actually, I took that to be Walt projecting himself from the Others' boat upon which he'd just been kidnapped, given his rather moist state and his backwards-talking (which I took to be symptomatic of a combination of his relative inexperience with his abilities plus the mental stress of having just been kidnapped by the Others).
Walt appearing to LOCKE, however, was clearly either a Walt from the future doing the Island's bidding (he's gotta come back sometime, after all!) or else an Island manifestation (given his use of the "work to do" phrase that seems a hallmark of Island manifestations...).
<<Claire in the cabin - Can't decide.>>
I'm still going with :alive but following the Island's "white rabbit" down the rabbit-hole into Wonderland. ;-)
<<Anthony Cooper's appearance was convincing because we have confirmation he had mass and breathed and bled like a real person.. but I bet the island can make a clone if it wants to, so I am undecided on him, too.>>
Nah...that was the real Anthony Cooper. He was most likely brought in at Ben's behest to set Locke up for failure and nip in the bud any possible chance of Locke taking over the Others. Ben had to know as soon as he had the info that John Locke's was on the Island from Ethan that he was dealing with a possible "usurper", especially knowing what we know now about both Alpert's and Abaddon's interest in him literally from birth.
Here's a thought...perhaps the Island was telling Ben that he needed to accept Locke as his replacement with the tumor followed by a spinal surgeon also falling from the sky on Oceanic 815. ;-) -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 1:14 PMYeah, I think Claire following the White Rabbit sounds about right. I think they clued us in by having Jack read that story to Aaron. -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 6:37 PMYup...and the Jack/Christian relationship has always been steeped in "Alice" imagery, so it's only a natural progression that Claire now fit into that now that we know she's related to those two. :-) -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 6:57 PMIt doesn't hurt that she looks like Alice. -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:54 PMSonya, could you elaborate a little on the Alice imagery of the Jack/Christian relationship? -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 1:11 PM@Polly
<<Sonya, could you elaborate a little on the Alice imagery of the Jack/Christian relationship?>>
Sure! That the Island is "Wonderland" in addition to being every other mysterious hidden/island realm of literature all rolled into one is a bit of a gimme.
But Jack's "Alice" imagery starts with episode 1.5, aptly titled "White Rabbit", in which Jack first sees and chases the apparition of Christian into the jungle just as Alice chases the White Rabbit down the rabbit hole. (This, I think, is why ghost-Christian is always seen by Jack wearing white tennies).
Then, in another obvious Alice reference, Jack's 1st flash-forward episode is called "Through the Looking Glass". Noteworthy here is that time moves both backwards and forwards in Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass, and What Alice Found There", plus a LOT of mirror imagery around Jack—his beardy, shambles self being a polar opposite to the Island's "Action Jack". Then, later, Jack tries to use a mirror to direct his own surgery.
What's more, now, in Jack's flash-forwards we have the White Rabbit again trying to lead Alice (Jack) back to Wonderland.
And now we have Lost's "White Rabbit" leading a more literal Alice (Claire) much more willingly down the rabbit-hole and into the "Wonderland" that is the Island's more supernatural elements.
There are also "Alice" symbols in other areas on the show...it's just that the Shephards are the people most associated with Alice imagery in "Lost" (much as Ben is with "Oz" imagery and references, Locke with aboriginal-style spirituality like vision-quests and sweat lodges, Desmond with Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse 5" and Homer's "Odyssey", Hurley with the Numbers and themes of luck and probability, and so on).
As is so often the case, Lostpedia has a page to help us out: lostpedia.com/wiki/Alice%...n_Wonderland -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 3:08 PMSonya, great breakdown of literary influences as they pertain to different characters! That was really helpful!
:)
The Vonnegut/"Slaughterhouse 5" thing with Desmond really seemed to peak in "The Constant." I wonder if we'll get more Desmond plots along those lines~ -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 3:27 PM@Ivy
<<The Vonnegut/"Slaughterhouse 5" thing with Desmond really seemed to peak in "The Constant." I wonder if we'll get more Desmond plots along those lines~>>
True...but there's still the slight matter of his "flashes". Finding his Constant resolved the "unstuck in time" issue, but I don't think there's any reason to assume that his flashes are over with. Never forget, not *all* of the flashes we know about pertained to Charlie...just most of them. He also quite correctly prognosticated Locke's speech to the beach camp.
Desmond's arc is all about traveling...both in space and in time. And, if there's anything we've learned about Lost, it's that reuniting with one's lost loved one is never the end of the story followed by "happily ever after". I think Michael, Walt, Sayid, Nadia, Danielle, and Alex might have a thing or two to say about that. And I'm still not convinced that everything's going to end well with resident "awwwwwww"-inducers Rose & Bernard, or that Juliet will ever see her sister and nephew again.
'Course, I *hope* that everything ends well for Des & Pen and Rose & Bernard...happy endings just so far don't seem to be Lost's stock in trade.
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 11:56 PMSonya - Great feedback. I was going with my gut and it's interesting to see what your actual deliberation did with it... Your points make sense. I hope you're wrong about Charlie, but I dug reading it all.
I had forgotten about Locke seeing Walt - Did I miss any other apparitions? Oh, yes!!!!!!!
--> In a flashback we see young Ben being visited by his mum... Is that real or Memorex? I bet you will say it must be the Island's manifestation.. I am still unsure.
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:16 AMWhen Ben's mother visited him I really got caught up in the fact that she stopped him from walking through the sonic fence. Would his imagination do that? Does that mean it could have been smokey? Still pondering. -
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 3:11 PMI definitely got the feeling that the apparition of Ben's Mom to him as a child was both benevolent and protective. It didn't seem like Smokey.
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Re: What's Up With Claire? Aaron?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 3:16 PM@Yuni
<<Does that mean it could have been smokey? Still pondering.>>
I think the apparition of Ben's mother was definitely the Island or Smokey. The Island wanted Ben to be curious about the woods outside, which would bring him in contact with Alpert, which in turn would set him up as the Others' leader and Jacob's "high priest".
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