Finally I've had a moment to catch up on reading the new threads and comments posted in LOST tribe since the season finale (which I thought was spectacular).
I've been most looking forward to seeing a rich discussion on the wheel which Ben turned to "move" the island but except for one post (Chopper's comment: "oh, and another thing, did you wheal Ben had to turn to move the island remind you of a Dharmacakra?") and another comment somewhere about the wheel looking like an old sailing ship's wheel, I am not finding such a discussion -thus this new thread.
Yes, absolutely, in reply to Chopper's question, the Dharma Wheel is exactly and precisely that which immediately came to my mind when I saw Ben lay hands on it and start struggling both physically and emotionally.
Google turns up all sorts of excellent reads on the Buddhist Wheel of Law, or Dharma Wheel.
www.google.com/search
Clearly, whatever this Dharma Wheel is connected to behind that wall is at the heart of the LOST island's properties and mystery. What could that be?
Is it natural (in the sense of "not made by human or alien hands or tentacles") or is it an artifact created by humans or some other intelligence?
The physical location of this powerful device or phenomenon behind the wall and connected to the Dharma Wheel appears to be in the arctic. I suggest arctic because of other clues: polar bears only live in the arctic, not antarctic, and Penny has geeks up there listening for Desmond to break radio silence ...but it could as easily be in the high Himalayas or anywhere cold (even atop the snow-capped peak of Hawaii's Big Island).
Thoughts and comments?
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Thu, June 5, 2008 - 8:22 AMInteresting. The wheel itself has the same number of sides as the dharma logos as well as the Buddhist Darhma wheel symbol.
Wheel
bp0.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zl...3-00024.jpg
Darma Logo
www.lostzilla.net/varios/dharma.jpg
Buddhist Dharma Wheel
upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....svg.png
The Dharmacakra symbol is represented as a chariot wheel (Sanskrit cakram) with eight or more spokes. It is the oldest known Buddhist symbol found in Indian art, appearing with the first surviving post-Harappan Indian iconography in the time of the Buddhist king Aśokaḥ. The Dharmacakra has been used by all Buddhist nations as a symbol ever since. In its simplest form, the Dharmacakra is recognized globally as a symbol for Buddhism.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmacakra -
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Thu, June 5, 2008 - 2:32 PMMain problem with this theory is that the creators of the wheel (and the Smokey summoning chamber) appear to have been the mysterious ancient Islanders with 4 toes.
It's possible they might have inspired the naming and iconography of the DI, though, I suppose. -
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Thu, June 5, 2008 - 3:12 PM>Main problem with this theory is that the creators of the wheel (and the Smokey summoning chamber) appear to have been the mysterious ancient Islanders with 4 toes. <
Yes, the central question is resolving as something like "How did such advanced technology end up hidden far in the past?"
I can currently think of only three plausible (by SciFi standards) explanations:
-Aliens visited long ago (a "Chariots of the Gods" scenario) and the island is the key to accessing and controlling their various remaining artifacts, or
-Aaron grows up to be way more brilliant than all the geniuses who have ever been, all rolled together, and invents the Dharma Wheel Device & the 'lil wormholes & Smokie & all this stuff himself, then hides it way back in the past before disaster overtakes him, or
-Aaron goes to or at least discorporeally views the future and then either builds an ancient civilization possessing advanced tech or instructs his high priest corporeally traveling into the distant past on his behalf (John Locke?) to build such an ancient civilization possessing advanced tech.
Or, I suppose, a fourth option would be a combination of Aaron monkeying with alien artifacts and setting up an ancient civilization.
Introducing aliens as an explain-all at this point in the LOST saga would be so facile and deus ex machina; I think more highly of the writers than that. My guess is it has nothing to do with aliens. More likely John Locke loses a toe and is memorialized in the Four-Toed Statue for a job well done as Jacob's high priest.
-
-
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Thu, June 5, 2008 - 7:07 PMD'oh! I just spotted this germane comment posted by Ivy over in the "Inorganic items in the vault" thread -somehow I had missed it on my earlier read-through.
>I suspect that the vault was drawing on the greater power of the wheel. The vault was likely set up by Dharma "near" the wheel to tap into the same power. The wheel can probably achieve moves thru time and space. That's just my intuition though. :) <
Am I understanding correctly your theory to suggest the greatest power inheres in the Wheel itself, versus whatever is behind the wall the Wheel penetrates? Or perhaps in this comment the word "wheel" is used as a location or in combination with whatever is behind the wall, rather than to describe the specific item itself?
Interesting notion that DHARMA's vault may have been deliberately set up where it was to operate on an attenuated bleed of the Wheel-and-Whatever-Is-Behind-The-Wall's vast power. If I recall correctly, induction coils and even electric motors themselves run on a similar principle, and there is always the Casimir Effect lurking about in close spaces, too. If so, then this would perhaps bolster bundt's theory that the vault is located literally right atop the Wheel-and-Whatever-Is-Behind-The-Wall, unless the force field of the Wheel-and-Whatever-Is-Behind-The-Wall actively extends all the way from, say, the arctic through a wormhole, which would seem an exotic matter ; ) . -
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 11:26 AM> Interesting notion that DHARMA's vault may have been deliberately set up where it was to operate on an attenuated bleed of the Wheel-and-Whatever-Is-Behind-The-Wall's vast power.
Are you even watching the show? Didn't the Orchid Orientation video that Ben had John watch say specifically this? Were they not doing experiments in time-space travel in that vault? Ok, the video didn't mention the wheel, but it talked about how the vault was set up by a source of exotic matter. The writers made it very clear to me that the reason the vault is where it is is to take advantage of the proximity to what is beyond the vault's wall, i.e. the wheel (yes, and whatever the wheel is connected to). -
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 3:01 PMbundt asks:
>Are you even watching the show?<
Lindleof observes:
>Obviously, this person watches the show very closely.<
AlaskaSteven replies:
Sometimes, bundt, I begin to worry that either I may be misinterpreting your tone (it is all too easy for e-mail text to unintentionally read as curt, brusque, or harsh) or that you may perhaps be taking this LOST speculation fun a bit more seriously than usually fits together with the concept of “fun.” Assuming (as I am ever so wont to do) the intention is a friendly question rather than an outright attack, I’d just mildly offer:
-yes, I have moments of total dumbness at times (perhaps even frequently),
-the Orchid orientation film may contain disinformation and not be totally trustworthy gospel in all regards,
-this was a way to mention a potential mechanism explaining HOW a physical proximity between the anomaly and the Vault could have operated (via real-world induction effect),
-writing the comment thusly was also a way to work in a modest physics joke “which would seem an exotic matter,” and
-stylistically it sometimes seems preferable to me to state something about which I have long had a very clear and certain understanding as if I am only recently come to wonder about the point, this because doing so can invite others into a conversation (especially if they feel timid about interacting in a public forum with some occasionally ferocious-seeming writers) and because doing so can seem more socially pleasant and less know-it-all arrogant than making strong assertions.
That said, I really would be interested to hear what folks think: could it be plausible within a SciFi construct for the force field of the Wheel-and-Whatever-Is-Behind-The-Wall to actively extend all the way from, say, the arctic, through a wormhole?
My sense is that whether in SciFi or abstract physics the usual speculation is that a wormhole is not so much like a tunnel or pipe as like a point of singularity. Accordingly, can an effect or field generated on one side of such an event horizon extend continuously and actively through to the other side? Remember that the north pole of a bar magnet (or magnetic field) cannot be chopped off from the south pole -there is an illusion of the ends as being divisibly north and south (since they repel a like charge and attract a different charge on another magnet) but the N and S poles are one and the same as each other and cannot be separated one from the other.
; )
-
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 4:54 PMI apologize for being harsh, Steven, you just sometimes frustrate the crap out of me. I have a difficult time remembering that I don't know everything either. For a while this season I had every intention of leaving this tribe or reducing my role to lurker, with the hope that the absence of my harshness might make some other folks bolder in their posting.
The way you hold so tight to your theories makes me think you've got some that you like so much that you are reluctant to let go of them, so instead you try to fit the revelations of the show into your theories. I apologize again if this bothers you, but it is the way you come across to me. You really want branes and wormholes, so those must be the explanation. OTOH, it could be I want too much to trust the story telling of the show runners, so I trust too much in the facts presented.
I think that the producers have created a situation where we all have trouble believing that what we saw is really the truth. They've pulled the rug from under us before, so now we don't trust them. But I think that they are now working towards the end, so I think more of the reveals are going to be straightforward. They know perfectly well that they lose a lot of impact if they keep changing everything all the time, so there must be some solid facts.
And I tend to think the deeper secrets about the nature of the Island are going to be contained within the Island, not in the Arctic or the Tunisian desert or a network of wormholes. It just seems more what Damon and Carlton would do. I mean, isn't this a show about some freaky island?
BTW, scientists have theorized about magnetic monopoles, and it's been used in Sci-Fi.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole -
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 5:56 PMBundt, I'm glad you're still here.
Steven, I'm glad you came back.
Now I think it's time for everyone to have some Dharma milk and cookies and then a nice long nap on the beach.
I've stopped theorizing too. The show unfolds just fine whether I try to figure it out or not.
Have a great weekend~
:)
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 10:21 PMYeah, Lurkers!! ;-p
-
Re: Turning the Dharma Wheel: what is behind that wall?
Fri, June 6, 2008 - 10:54 PM
De nada, bundt, and thanks- glad to have the benefit of your insightful thoughts (and forbearance with my trying to make all the bits and pieces fit together in a way which seems at all beautiful or elegant). That bit about the monopoles was news to me! I learn something new every day in this discussion, it seems. I really do hope we get to enjoy lunch or dinner someday after the run ends and have a good laugh together over how radically wrong we each were in figuring out various aspects, once all is known. This would be all sorts of fun.
Ursula LeGuin has long been a favorite SciFi writer in my personal pantheon of such demigods exactly because she refuses to use faster-than-light "warpspeed" or wormholes for jumps or anything else like that which is outside of the laws of physics as we currently understand them to describe the workings and parameters of this universe (...although her "anisible" device is a bit iffy on that principle, but it is a small fudge if even a fudge). I would love it if the LOST writers manage to pull this off without resorting to wormholes, to at least two branes (Yang and Yin versions of this reality) and suchlike exotica all of which is totally speculative ...but it is just beyond me how they could do so (sans using the easy deus ex machina of a crashed alien spaceship which has black boxes doing everything "just so" -as Kipling would say).
Probably my worst fear is of the supernatural being invoked as an explain-all mechanism with no rational explanation beyond that. Whispers, the Zombie Christian Shepard, Jacob, and all the rest finally being held up and explained as "Well, they are ghosts and spirits and this just the way such entities behave" -this would be so disappointing. The characters are so engaging and the interweavings of bits of philosophy, art, and science have been so tantalizingly good to date, I hope the rest turns out as well.
-
-
-
-